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	<title>Comments on: Democracy and Its Obstacles</title>
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	<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/02/03/democracy-obstacles/</link>
	<description>"If not now, when?"</description>
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		<title>By: eatbees</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/02/03/democracy-obstacles/comment-page-1/#comment-2192</link>
		<dc:creator>eatbees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/02/03/democracy-obstacles/#comment-2192</guid>
		<description>@Jill — The idea of reintegrating street kids into their families and schools IS amazingly tricky. My mom was a school psychologist before she retired, and even in the best of circumstances (a wealthy society with a theraputic, rather than disciplinary approach to these questions) it is hard to coordinate the authorities, the specialists, the families, and the kids themselves. Many kids may not want to go back, because they are fleeing from real problems and have gotten used to a certain freedom, however miserable it may be....

I know you were just using a specific case. In Larache I knew many people who were active in community groups that picked up litter, offered music and theatre programs to kids, offered solidarity to the families of those who had fled Morocco illegally on &quot;pateras&quot; (tiny, dangerous boats), provided jobs to unemployed college graduates, offered counseling to women fleeing abuse, or gave children a place to sleep who would otherwise be on the street. I got the sense that many of these programs were conducted in the teeth of more or less overt hostility from the corrupt, Mafia-like local authorities, whose interests they sometimes called into question. Many of my friends were well known to the police on account of their activism, although everything they were doing was well within the law.

When your students say &quot;it will never work&quot; they may be talking about the degree to which power is entrenched and able to resist change. They may also be talking about the need for a complete revolution in mentaility among the majority, who have survived years of repression and have adapted by learning to submit. Believe me, I know what you&#039;re talking about, and I share your frustration at this tragedy and waste.

@Ibn Kafka — When you say, &quot;This line of argument reminds me too much of what the despicable colonialists told our forefathers&quot;—I guess you&#039;re aware of the school of thought that says colonialism has never really ended in Morocco, but simply taken an &quot;Arab face&quot; !?

Winning true democracy will not be easy. Sacrifices have been made for some time, and more will be required. I have the sense that the overwhelming majority of Moroccans want it, and just as importantly, want it to happen peacefully. I am not among those who believe &quot;nothing has changed, or ever will change.&quot; Rather, because we ourselves evolve to keep in sync with the changes around us, we often aren&#039;t aware of how far we have already come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jill — The idea of reintegrating street kids into their families and schools IS amazingly tricky. My mom was a school psychologist before she retired, and even in the best of circumstances (a wealthy society with a theraputic, rather than disciplinary approach to these questions) it is hard to coordinate the authorities, the specialists, the families, and the kids themselves. Many kids may not want to go back, because they are fleeing from real problems and have gotten used to a certain freedom, however miserable it may be&#8230;.</p>
<p>I know you were just using a specific case. In Larache I knew many people who were active in community groups that picked up litter, offered music and theatre programs to kids, offered solidarity to the families of those who had fled Morocco illegally on &#8220;pateras&#8221; (tiny, dangerous boats), provided jobs to unemployed college graduates, offered counseling to women fleeing abuse, or gave children a place to sleep who would otherwise be on the street. I got the sense that many of these programs were conducted in the teeth of more or less overt hostility from the corrupt, Mafia-like local authorities, whose interests they sometimes called into question. Many of my friends were well known to the police on account of their activism, although everything they were doing was well within the law.</p>
<p>When your students say &#8220;it will never work&#8221; they may be talking about the degree to which power is entrenched and able to resist change. They may also be talking about the need for a complete revolution in mentaility among the majority, who have survived years of repression and have adapted by learning to submit. Believe me, I know what you&#8217;re talking about, and I share your frustration at this tragedy and waste.</p>
<p>@Ibn Kafka — When you say, &#8220;This line of argument reminds me too much of what the despicable colonialists told our forefathers&#8221;—I guess you&#8217;re aware of the school of thought that says colonialism has never really ended in Morocco, but simply taken an &#8220;Arab face&#8221; !?</p>
<p>Winning true democracy will not be easy. Sacrifices have been made for some time, and more will be required. I have the sense that the overwhelming majority of Moroccans want it, and just as importantly, want it to happen peacefully. I am not among those who believe &#8220;nothing has changed, or ever will change.&#8221; Rather, because we ourselves evolve to keep in sync with the changes around us, we often aren&#8217;t aware of how far we have already come.</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/02/03/democracy-obstacles/comment-page-1/#comment-2189</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 22:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/02/03/democracy-obstacles/#comment-2189</guid>
		<description>Well put. 

And I agree too with what Ibn Kafka said - it drives me nuts to hear my husband and plenty other Moroccans say that if Moroccans are handed the power to vote, they&#039;ll just abuse it - that they aren&#039;t mature enough for democracy.

I also want to clarify what I was saying before (although I take no issue with any of your quotes of mine) with a concrete example.  Yesterday, I showed some students &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xhtml1/en_GB/features/awi/reportage/2007/02/02/reportage-01&quot; target=_blank rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt;.

Their opinions, I kid you not: &quot;It will never work.&quot;

It&#039;s THAT that I&#039;m tired of hearing.  Complete pessimism.  And it scares me because this is the youngest generation I&#039;m talking about - those who will have power in the next 15 years.  But most would prefer to just leave, or to get a good job and live comfortably.  Politics don&#039;t interest Morocco&#039;s youth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well put. </p>
<p>And I agree too with what Ibn Kafka said &#8211; it drives me nuts to hear my husband and plenty other Moroccans say that if Moroccans are handed the power to vote, they&#8217;ll just abuse it &#8211; that they aren&#8217;t mature enough for democracy.</p>
<p>I also want to clarify what I was saying before (although I take no issue with any of your quotes of mine) with a concrete example.  Yesterday, I showed some students <a href="http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xhtml1/en_GB/features/awi/reportage/2007/02/02/reportage-01" target=_blank rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">this article</a>.</p>
<p>Their opinions, I kid you not: &#8220;It will never work.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s THAT that I&#8217;m tired of hearing.  Complete pessimism.  And it scares me because this is the youngest generation I&#8217;m talking about &#8211; those who will have power in the next 15 years.  But most would prefer to just leave, or to get a good job and live comfortably.  Politics don&#8217;t interest Morocco&#8217;s youth.</p>
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		<title>By: Ibn Kafka</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/02/03/democracy-obstacles/comment-page-1/#comment-2137</link>
		<dc:creator>Ibn Kafka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 18:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/02/03/democracy-obstacles/#comment-2137</guid>
		<description>Very interesting post, and I&#039;m also on your side on this subject: I&#039;ve never had any patience with people (invariably Moroccans) saying &quot;Moroccans aren&#039;t mature enough&quot;, &quot;Moroccans aren&#039;t literate enough&quot;, etc in order for the country to be allowed a democracy in any real sens of the word. This line of argument reminds me too much of what the despicable colonialists told our forefathers some decades ago - &quot;the indigenous aren&#039;t mature enough&quot;, etc...

I also agree with your stand on democracy: it was never ever granted any people from above - even peaceful Switzerland had a civil war! Not that I advocate violence in the Moroccan context, very far from it, but democratic struggle, such as evidenced for example by Aboubakr Jamaï, the AMDH and others, is the only way to gain new rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting post, and I&#8217;m also on your side on this subject: I&#8217;ve never had any patience with people (invariably Moroccans) saying &#8220;Moroccans aren&#8217;t mature enough&#8221;, &#8220;Moroccans aren&#8217;t literate enough&#8221;, etc in order for the country to be allowed a democracy in any real sens of the word. This line of argument reminds me too much of what the despicable colonialists told our forefathers some decades ago &#8211; &#8220;the indigenous aren&#8217;t mature enough&#8221;, etc&#8230;</p>
<p>I also agree with your stand on democracy: it was never ever granted any people from above &#8211; even peaceful Switzerland had a civil war! Not that I advocate violence in the Moroccan context, very far from it, but democratic struggle, such as evidenced for example by Aboubakr Jamaï, the AMDH and others, is the only way to gain new rights.</p>
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