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	<title>Comments on: Insolence</title>
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	<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/</link>
	<description>"If not now, when?"</description>
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		<title>By: Karim</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/comment-page-1/#comment-23200</link>
		<dc:creator>Karim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 02:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/#comment-23200</guid>
		<description>AC/DC:

I am highly offended by your support for an authoritarian system that continues to rule 30 million people against their will.

What makes you think that we all want to be a &quot;modern European country&quot;?  

With all the problems with our &quot;backward&quot; region have, we have not produced anything close to a Nazi state that slaughtered over 10 million people and started 2 world wars in which many millions died uncessarly. Nazi Germany was a modern, highly developed and &quot;civilized&quot; (the land of Bethoven) European country. For the rest of the European countries, well they had their share in killing backward people in the millions too during their colonial adventures.

Apparently you&#039;d pick a Nazi European state over conservative (and relatively democratic) Iran.

This authoritarin system that you support will fall, sooner or later.

It has no legitimacy among the people.

If the king wants to rule, he needs to run for elections and he also needs to stop acting like a God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AC/DC:</p>
<p>I am highly offended by your support for an authoritarian system that continues to rule 30 million people against their will.</p>
<p>What makes you think that we all want to be a &#8220;modern European country&#8221;?  </p>
<p>With all the problems with our &#8220;backward&#8221; region have, we have not produced anything close to a Nazi state that slaughtered over 10 million people and started 2 world wars in which many millions died uncessarly. Nazi Germany was a modern, highly developed and &#8220;civilized&#8221; (the land of Bethoven) European country. For the rest of the European countries, well they had their share in killing backward people in the millions too during their colonial adventures.</p>
<p>Apparently you&#8217;d pick a Nazi European state over conservative (and relatively democratic) Iran.</p>
<p>This authoritarin system that you support will fall, sooner or later.</p>
<p>It has no legitimacy among the people.</p>
<p>If the king wants to rule, he needs to run for elections and he also needs to stop acting like a God.</p>
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		<title>By: punchman</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/comment-page-1/#comment-23059</link>
		<dc:creator>punchman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 22:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/#comment-23059</guid>
		<description>A foolish man may be known by six things: Anger without cause, speech without profit, change without progress, inquiry without object, putting trust in a stranger, and mistaking foes for friends
 its sounds like benshamsi and his cew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A foolish man may be known by six things: Anger without cause, speech without profit, change without progress, inquiry without object, putting trust in a stranger, and mistaking foes for friends<br />
 its sounds like benshamsi and his cew</p>
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		<title>By: AC/DC</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/comment-page-1/#comment-23056</link>
		<dc:creator>AC/DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/#comment-23056</guid>
		<description>No country is perfect, but monarchy as it is right now is suitable  for Morrocco.Thanks God  the country did not know tragedies and massacres  like Algeria or Iraq, and  that &#039;s what counts the most   for us :  to spare  people&#039;s  lives, which is more important than all the rights and all the wealth of the world.
Mohamed VI has a mission to mold Morocco at the image of a  modern European country  and for this noble task  nobody has the right to disprupt his progress .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No country is perfect, but monarchy as it is right now is suitable  for Morrocco.Thanks God  the country did not know tragedies and massacres  like Algeria or Iraq, and  that &#8217;s what counts the most   for us :  to spare  people&#8217;s  lives, which is more important than all the rights and all the wealth of the world.<br />
Mohamed VI has a mission to mold Morocco at the image of a  modern European country  and for this noble task  nobody has the right to disprupt his progress .</p>
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		<title>By: does not matter</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/comment-page-1/#comment-23053</link>
		<dc:creator>does not matter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/#comment-23053</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve been hearing the symphony over and over...Moroccans do not deserve and cannot handle and are not ready for democracy...Maybe there is a problem in defining democracy for some...A country cannot be run by individuals, especially forever and with genetic inheritance that is totally unpredictible...a state should be run by accoutable institutions... which are following a strong constitution that guarantees equal rights and duties for all citizens including the haed of the state, no one should be sacred and everyone deserves respect...having sacred individuals was perhaps usefull at the time of Gangiskhan (maybe) but we are in the 21st century my friend. I am curious to know how many moroccans think that the king is their protector against all the scary things you&#039;re mentioning
Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve been hearing the symphony over and over&#8230;Moroccans do not deserve and cannot handle and are not ready for democracy&#8230;Maybe there is a problem in defining democracy for some&#8230;A country cannot be run by individuals, especially forever and with genetic inheritance that is totally unpredictible&#8230;a state should be run by accoutable institutions&#8230; which are following a strong constitution that guarantees equal rights and duties for all citizens including the haed of the state, no one should be sacred and everyone deserves respect&#8230;having sacred individuals was perhaps usefull at the time of Gangiskhan (maybe) but we are in the 21st century my friend. I am curious to know how many moroccans think that the king is their protector against all the scary things you&#8217;re mentioning<br />
Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: AC/DC</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/comment-page-1/#comment-23048</link>
		<dc:creator>AC/DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 05:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/#comment-23048</guid>
		<description>eatbees,

Theorically you&#039;re right, but realistically  your views won&#039;t work in a country where tribalism  is still very strong. Observ what&#039;s going in our Saharian provinces  coveted by a native Moroccan of Marrakech .

Moroccans are not ready  for  democracy and all the components  attached to it , a change like in Norway  or  Spain as  suggested in your commentary above.
Morocco needs right now a strong leader  like Mohamed VI  to protect it  against anarchy
destabilization  and separatism.
We don&#039;t want  to follow the example of  the liberation and democratisation of Iraq or Iran, Palestine etc...It only profits to Morocco&#039;s enemies.
Someone needs to live in Morocco or to be a Moroccan native in order  to understand  deeply Moroccan character and its  politics. Morocco is different, it&#039;is not Spain or another European country. It&#039;s part of Middle East : something very few pandits  can really understand.
----------------------
PS

I don&#039;t represent anybody but myself.
When I use &quot;WE&quot;, I mean  me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eatbees,</p>
<p>Theorically you&#8217;re right, but realistically  your views won&#8217;t work in a country where tribalism  is still very strong. Observ what&#8217;s going in our Saharian provinces  coveted by a native Moroccan of Marrakech .</p>
<p>Moroccans are not ready  for  democracy and all the components  attached to it , a change like in Norway  or  Spain as  suggested in your commentary above.<br />
Morocco needs right now a strong leader  like Mohamed VI  to protect it  against anarchy<br />
destabilization  and separatism.<br />
We don&#8217;t want  to follow the example of  the liberation and democratisation of Iraq or Iran, Palestine etc&#8230;It only profits to Morocco&#8217;s enemies.<br />
Someone needs to live in Morocco or to be a Moroccan native in order  to understand  deeply Moroccan character and its  politics. Morocco is different, it&#8217;is not Spain or another European country. It&#8217;s part of Middle East : something very few pandits  can really understand.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
PS</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t represent anybody but myself.<br />
When I use &#8220;WE&#8221;, I mean  me.</p>
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		<title>By: Rip Van Winkle</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/comment-page-1/#comment-23043</link>
		<dc:creator>Rip Van Winkle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 00:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/#comment-23043</guid>
		<description>I am aware of the issues raised in Benchemsi&#039;s editorial and I believe sooner or later they will have to be addressed. But I have no intention to let this guy speak on my behalf, since he is so removed from my reality as a Moroccan pauper. Of course he is entitled to defend the very special interests of the privileged class to which he belongs (which incidentally happen to be quite irrelevant to the man in the street) but he surely does not expect the masses whose lifestyle and beliefs he has relentlessly been denigrating in his glossy magazines to celebrate him as a popular hero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am aware of the issues raised in Benchemsi&#8217;s editorial and I believe sooner or later they will have to be addressed. But I have no intention to let this guy speak on my behalf, since he is so removed from my reality as a Moroccan pauper. Of course he is entitled to defend the very special interests of the privileged class to which he belongs (which incidentally happen to be quite irrelevant to the man in the street) but he surely does not expect the masses whose lifestyle and beliefs he has relentlessly been denigrating in his glossy magazines to celebrate him as a popular hero.</p>
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		<title>By: does not matter</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/comment-page-1/#comment-23040</link>
		<dc:creator>does not matter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 23:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/#comment-23040</guid>
		<description>eatbees
Thanks for those reminders</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eatbees<br />
Thanks for those reminders</p>
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		<title>By: does not matter</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/comment-page-1/#comment-23039</link>
		<dc:creator>does not matter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/#comment-23039</guid>
		<description>freedom is badly needed in this country, sexwise, speechwise or else it is not the point. The real point is that people should get to have some dignity and respect, get to choose who they want to be and what they want to believe and of course obide by the law, and the law is not necessarily consider the king as God. As a moroccan I do not want to be the subject of the king,  I am a citizen of morocco period. Imagin for example a contract that says that every morning you have to give a blow job the your boss because he is your boss, now the question is what are you going to do, either keep doing it or change it  into something that makes sense. In our case the contract is the constitution...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>freedom is badly needed in this country, sexwise, speechwise or else it is not the point. The real point is that people should get to have some dignity and respect, get to choose who they want to be and what they want to believe and of course obide by the law, and the law is not necessarily consider the king as God. As a moroccan I do not want to be the subject of the king,  I am a citizen of morocco period. Imagin for example a contract that says that every morning you have to give a blow job the your boss because he is your boss, now the question is what are you going to do, either keep doing it or change it  into something that makes sense. In our case the contract is the constitution&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: eatbees</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/comment-page-1/#comment-23038</link>
		<dc:creator>eatbees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 22:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/#comment-23038</guid>
		<description>I think we should focus on two things —&#160;1) the content of Benchemsi&#039;s editorial, which was a call for constitutional reform that will provide a system of checks and balances, rather than the concentration of all power in the king&#039;s hands as it is today; and 2) the question of whether a person should need to risk prison and charges of having &quot;foreign masters&quot; simply for advocating such views.

RVW, I appreciate your coming back and stating that you don&#039;t feel &quot;complacent satisfaction&quot; with the way things are in Morocco. And I assume that means that you wouldn&#039;t agree with everything your compatriot &quot;AC/DC&quot; said even though you are taking the same side of the argument. But when you talk about a Casablanca elite more concerned with sexual freedom than what interests ordinary Moroccans, you are projecting. Sexual freedom isn&#039;t the subject of the editorial that got Benchemsi in trouble—limiting the king&#039;s authority is. And I can assure you that his views on this subject resonate with many ordinary Moroccans who may not like the Westernization of Morocco. Democracy is extremely popular among the poor and frustrated young people who are about as far from the Casablanca elite as it is possible to get. They see the entire political class as corrupt, including most journalists who only sing praises of the king and party leaders—and they are desperate for some forum, some channel to express their views, which are the hopes for Moroccan progress we all share. The question is how to get there, and what is needed is a healthy, open debate, not an attitude of &quot;Let&#039;s all march behind our glorious leader.&quot; The king needs to trust his own people, and Benchemsi isn&#039;t the only one to observe that the throne speech didn&#039;t express that trust. So this is not about Benchemsi or his magazine&#039;s agenda—this is about the idea he is expressing, limited power, and it should be debated as an idea rather than having the State step in and say, &quot;Lines have been crossed—to prison!&quot;

AC/DC, what bothers me about your argument is first of all the idea that the king is somehow alone in developing Morocco. You call him &quot;the developer of Morocco&quot; as if there is only one. But M6 doesn&#039;t live in a nation of one person—there are 30 million Moroccans. Each one has a role to play. Second, you say the Benchemsi is trying to sabotage the king&#039;s work &quot;in order to gain popularity and power.&quot; If so, he chose a strange way to do it. Stating publicly what many people think privately (and might prefer to keep private) is a risky way to be popular in Morocco, and it&#039;s hard to see this as a road to power. Third, you say that if Morocco were to allow the popular will to express itself in the voting booth, then it would become like Iran, ruled by Islamic extremists, or Algeria, fighting a civil war to prevent that result. This is a scare tactic that we&#039;ve debated here in the past, and I reject it. The best way to avoid that result is to give people like Benchemsi a voice. If there is nothing to choose from except one-man rule or revolution, then one day, the nation may explode into crisis. None of us wants that to happen, which is why I feel that constitutional reform is imperative. It doesn&#039;t have to be all at once, but the path of limited authority should be on the horizon. Eight years ago, when M6 came to power, Moroccans had great hopes of a democratic new dawn, and this year&#039;s throne speech seemed to close the door on those hopes. Finally, you say that Morocco is not Norway, but how did Norway become the democratic model it is? Its monarchy gradually stepped back from politics, allowed its power to be limited, and gave room to opposing views. The same happened in Spain after the death of Franco, or in places like Brazil and Argentina after years of military rule. One-man rule needs to be replaced with rule by the people, because the people collectively have more talent than one man. I agree with you that social and economic development in Morocco are criticial, but I am with &quot;Cat in Rabat&quot; on this one. Only democracy can assure that development responds to the needs of the people, rather than the wishes of a wealthy and well-connected elite.

One final point. Can anyone tell me why the debate we are having here on this blog is harmful to Morocco? Because what Benchemsi and his advocates are defending is the right of ordinary Moroccans to have the same free and open exchange of ideas concerning their future that we are enjoying here. Nothing more nor less.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we should focus on two things —&nbsp;1) the content of Benchemsi&#8217;s editorial, which was a call for constitutional reform that will provide a system of checks and balances, rather than the concentration of all power in the king&#8217;s hands as it is today; and 2) the question of whether a person should need to risk prison and charges of having &#8220;foreign masters&#8221; simply for advocating such views.</p>
<p>RVW, I appreciate your coming back and stating that you don&#8217;t feel &#8220;complacent satisfaction&#8221; with the way things are in Morocco. And I assume that means that you wouldn&#8217;t agree with everything your compatriot &#8220;AC/DC&#8221; said even though you are taking the same side of the argument. But when you talk about a Casablanca elite more concerned with sexual freedom than what interests ordinary Moroccans, you are projecting. Sexual freedom isn&#8217;t the subject of the editorial that got Benchemsi in trouble—limiting the king&#8217;s authority is. And I can assure you that his views on this subject resonate with many ordinary Moroccans who may not like the Westernization of Morocco. Democracy is extremely popular among the poor and frustrated young people who are about as far from the Casablanca elite as it is possible to get. They see the entire political class as corrupt, including most journalists who only sing praises of the king and party leaders—and they are desperate for some forum, some channel to express their views, which are the hopes for Moroccan progress we all share. The question is how to get there, and what is needed is a healthy, open debate, not an attitude of &#8220;Let&#8217;s all march behind our glorious leader.&#8221; The king needs to trust his own people, and Benchemsi isn&#8217;t the only one to observe that the throne speech didn&#8217;t express that trust. So this is not about Benchemsi or his magazine&#8217;s agenda—this is about the idea he is expressing, limited power, and it should be debated as an idea rather than having the State step in and say, &#8220;Lines have been crossed—to prison!&#8221;</p>
<p>AC/DC, what bothers me about your argument is first of all the idea that the king is somehow alone in developing Morocco. You call him &#8220;the developer of Morocco&#8221; as if there is only one. But M6 doesn&#8217;t live in a nation of one person—there are 30 million Moroccans. Each one has a role to play. Second, you say the Benchemsi is trying to sabotage the king&#8217;s work &#8220;in order to gain popularity and power.&#8221; If so, he chose a strange way to do it. Stating publicly what many people think privately (and might prefer to keep private) is a risky way to be popular in Morocco, and it&#8217;s hard to see this as a road to power. Third, you say that if Morocco were to allow the popular will to express itself in the voting booth, then it would become like Iran, ruled by Islamic extremists, or Algeria, fighting a civil war to prevent that result. This is a scare tactic that we&#8217;ve debated here in the past, and I reject it. The best way to avoid that result is to give people like Benchemsi a voice. If there is nothing to choose from except one-man rule or revolution, then one day, the nation may explode into crisis. None of us wants that to happen, which is why I feel that constitutional reform is imperative. It doesn&#8217;t have to be all at once, but the path of limited authority should be on the horizon. Eight years ago, when M6 came to power, Moroccans had great hopes of a democratic new dawn, and this year&#8217;s throne speech seemed to close the door on those hopes. Finally, you say that Morocco is not Norway, but how did Norway become the democratic model it is? Its monarchy gradually stepped back from politics, allowed its power to be limited, and gave room to opposing views. The same happened in Spain after the death of Franco, or in places like Brazil and Argentina after years of military rule. One-man rule needs to be replaced with rule by the people, because the people collectively have more talent than one man. I agree with you that social and economic development in Morocco are criticial, but I am with &#8220;Cat in Rabat&#8221; on this one. Only democracy can assure that development responds to the needs of the people, rather than the wishes of a wealthy and well-connected elite.</p>
<p>One final point. Can anyone tell me why the debate we are having here on this blog is harmful to Morocco? Because what Benchemsi and his advocates are defending is the right of ordinary Moroccans to have the same free and open exchange of ideas concerning their future that we are enjoying here. Nothing more nor less.</p>
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		<title>By: Rip Van Winkle</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/comment-page-1/#comment-23037</link>
		<dc:creator>Rip Van Winkle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2007 21:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/06/insolence/#comment-23037</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t want my critique of Benchemsi to be construed as a defense of the ruling class or as an expression of complacent satisfaction with the current state of affairs in Morocco.  We badly need to embark on a soul searching process, a painful and ego-shattering endeavor. We need to come up with a comprehensive and in-depth assessment of our society and try to work out together a genuine &quot;projet de société&quot; which involves all the components of Moroccan society.  This is certainly not the agenda of this horde of bourgeois vulgar blasé pseudo-intellectuals as represented by the above-named person, with their dated vision of Morocco, as a land of sexual frustration, archaic religious beliefs and this almost genetic incapacity to comprehend and embrace of the fabulous virtues of the West, and their futuristic dream of Morocco as a land of sexual freedom (read promiscuity and debauchery), spiritual enlightenment (turning the collective memory into a table rase) and turning to the West for guidance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want my critique of Benchemsi to be construed as a defense of the ruling class or as an expression of complacent satisfaction with the current state of affairs in Morocco.  We badly need to embark on a soul searching process, a painful and ego-shattering endeavor. We need to come up with a comprehensive and in-depth assessment of our society and try to work out together a genuine &#8220;projet de société&#8221; which involves all the components of Moroccan society.  This is certainly not the agenda of this horde of bourgeois vulgar blasé pseudo-intellectuals as represented by the above-named person, with their dated vision of Morocco, as a land of sexual frustration, archaic religious beliefs and this almost genetic incapacity to comprehend and embrace of the fabulous virtues of the West, and their futuristic dream of Morocco as a land of sexual freedom (read promiscuity and debauchery), spiritual enlightenment (turning the collective memory into a table rase) and turning to the West for guidance.</p>
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