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	<title>Comments on: Prison of Liberty</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/</link>
	<description>"If not now, when?"</description>
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		<title>By: Hisham</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-23273</link>
		<dc:creator>Hisham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/#comment-23273</guid>
		<description>@eatbees: I couldn&#039;t agree more eatbees! keep on keeping on my friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@eatbees: I couldn&#8217;t agree more eatbees! keep on keeping on my friend.</p>
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		<title>By: eatbees</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-23258</link>
		<dc:creator>eatbees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/#comment-23258</guid>
		<description>@tangerino — IMO, neither indivdual freedom nor economic security precedes the other, because they are completely inseparable. And they are both incredibly fragile things, because they require us to choose our best instincts over our worst ones (paranoia, clannishness, greed) not just once but over and over again!

@Hisham — It&#039;s not just Morocco that is slipping. The wealthy nations are slipping back into a fortress mentality that can&#039;t truly be called democracy on the inside if it fails to practice it on the outside... and authoritarianism seems to be growing in its appeal worldwide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tangerino — IMO, neither indivdual freedom nor economic security precedes the other, because they are completely inseparable. And they are both incredibly fragile things, because they require us to choose our best instincts over our worst ones (paranoia, clannishness, greed) not just once but over and over again!</p>
<p>@Hisham — It&#8217;s not just Morocco that is slipping. The wealthy nations are slipping back into a fortress mentality that can&#8217;t truly be called democracy on the inside if it fails to practice it on the outside&#8230; and authoritarianism seems to be growing in its appeal worldwide.</p>
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		<title>By: tangerino</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-23254</link>
		<dc:creator>tangerino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/#comment-23254</guid>
		<description>True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence.</p>
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		<title>By: Hisham</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-23252</link>
		<dc:creator>Hisham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/#comment-23252</guid>
		<description>Since his enthronisation, the new King and his lieutenants have been proclaiming their attachment to the values of democracy. Phrases like &quot;Human Rights,&quot; &quot;Righteous State,&quot; &quot;Freedom of Expression&quot;... have been repeated ad-nauseum to the point that those values have been completely emptied from their meaning and have become jargon words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since his enthronisation, the new King and his lieutenants have been proclaiming their attachment to the values of democracy. Phrases like &#8220;Human Rights,&#8221; &#8220;Righteous State,&#8221; &#8220;Freedom of Expression&#8221;&#8230; have been repeated ad-nauseum to the point that those values have been completely emptied from their meaning and have become jargon words.</p>
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		<title>By: Hisham</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-23220</link>
		<dc:creator>Hisham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/#comment-23220</guid>
		<description>Morocco is definitely back tracking...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Morocco is definitely back tracking&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: eatbees</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-23171</link>
		<dc:creator>eatbees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 03:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/#comment-23171</guid>
		<description>@punchman — We all know Morocco needs to develop its infrastructure, its educational system, its job base, and somehow create a better distribution of wealth and opportunity. But where you seem to draw the conclusion &quot;too much freedom too soon could be dangerous,&quot; the opposing view is that development will never benefit the people until they have won accountability from their political leaders. In this view, which I share, the free exchange of ideas is the engine of development.

Development has never been easy in any nation that has achieved it, whether the U.S. or France or Japan. There have always been mistakes along the way. But one of the prerequisites is to have an elected government, answerable to the people, with the authority to change national policy—what M6 called the &quot;grand objectives&quot; in his recent speech. That is what this debate is about. M6 claimed that authority for himself, Benchemsi objected, and he now faces censorship and perhaps prison. Is this fair? When will it be possible in Morocco to discuss the fundamentals that free people everywhere discuss? &quot;Why do we have the system we have? Is it working? Can we imagine a better one?&quot; 230&#160;years ago, Thomas Paine wrote the following in &lt;i&gt;The Rights of Man&lt;/i&gt;. I feel that he could have been discussing the Benchemsi case!

&quot;The defects of every government and constitution both as to principle and form, must... be as open to discussion as the defects of [any] law, and it is a duty which every man owes to society to point them out. When those defects, and the means of remedying them, are generally seen by a nation, that nation will reform its government or its constitution.... It is to a nation [i.e., the people] that the right of forming or reforming, generating or regenerating constitutions and governments belong; and consequently those subjects... are always before a country as a matter of right, and cannot... be made subjects for prosecution.&quot;

When it comes to Morocco, I believe that you and I have the same hope, though we may differ on how to get there. For me, what we are doing right now is part of the solution. If only this sort of exchange could be part of every Moroccan&#039;s experience in the classroom, in cafés, or with their colleagues at work. When I arrived in Morocco in 2003 (I&#039;m an American) I sensed a definite chill in public discussion compared to what I was used to. When I left in 2006, the air felt much clearer, and people seemed confident in expressing their views. What I worry about now are &quot;signals&quot; that things are set to go backwards. 

When you say, &quot;Countless people dare not say a thing because they know it will be picked up and made a song of by the press. That limits freedom,&quot; it reminds me of an unhealthy facet of the Moroccan mentality, its paranoid or fault-finding side. This isn&#039;t unique to Morocco either, it is part of human nature. But I think Doga is right. Rather than turn away from problems, we must work diligently to solve them. In the arena of free speech, it means defending the rights of others, even when we don&#039;t agree with everything they said. It means exercising our own right to speak, courageously and honorably. No right is given freely, it must be earned, and it grows by example. Our example will encourage others, and before long, Morocco will discover its elusive freedom.

&quot;For a nation to love liberty, it is sufficient that she knows it; and to be free, it is sufficient that she wills it&quot;—the Marquis de la Fayette.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@punchman — We all know Morocco needs to develop its infrastructure, its educational system, its job base, and somehow create a better distribution of wealth and opportunity. But where you seem to draw the conclusion &#8220;too much freedom too soon could be dangerous,&#8221; the opposing view is that development will never benefit the people until they have won accountability from their political leaders. In this view, which I share, the free exchange of ideas is the engine of development.</p>
<p>Development has never been easy in any nation that has achieved it, whether the U.S. or France or Japan. There have always been mistakes along the way. But one of the prerequisites is to have an elected government, answerable to the people, with the authority to change national policy—what M6 called the &#8220;grand objectives&#8221; in his recent speech. That is what this debate is about. M6 claimed that authority for himself, Benchemsi objected, and he now faces censorship and perhaps prison. Is this fair? When will it be possible in Morocco to discuss the fundamentals that free people everywhere discuss? &#8220;Why do we have the system we have? Is it working? Can we imagine a better one?&#8221; 230&nbsp;years ago, Thomas Paine wrote the following in <i>The Rights of Man</i>. I feel that he could have been discussing the Benchemsi case!</p>
<p>&#8220;The defects of every government and constitution both as to principle and form, must&#8230; be as open to discussion as the defects of [any] law, and it is a duty which every man owes to society to point them out. When those defects, and the means of remedying them, are generally seen by a nation, that nation will reform its government or its constitution&#8230;. It is to a nation [i.e., the people] that the right of forming or reforming, generating or regenerating constitutions and governments belong; and consequently those subjects&#8230; are always before a country as a matter of right, and cannot&#8230; be made subjects for prosecution.&#8221;</p>
<p>When it comes to Morocco, I believe that you and I have the same hope, though we may differ on how to get there. For me, what we are doing right now is part of the solution. If only this sort of exchange could be part of every Moroccan&#8217;s experience in the classroom, in cafés, or with their colleagues at work. When I arrived in Morocco in 2003 (I&#8217;m an American) I sensed a definite chill in public discussion compared to what I was used to. When I left in 2006, the air felt much clearer, and people seemed confident in expressing their views. What I worry about now are &#8220;signals&#8221; that things are set to go backwards. </p>
<p>When you say, &#8220;Countless people dare not say a thing because they know it will be picked up and made a song of by the press. That limits freedom,&#8221; it reminds me of an unhealthy facet of the Moroccan mentality, its paranoid or fault-finding side. This isn&#8217;t unique to Morocco either, it is part of human nature. But I think Doga is right. Rather than turn away from problems, we must work diligently to solve them. In the arena of free speech, it means defending the rights of others, even when we don&#8217;t agree with everything they said. It means exercising our own right to speak, courageously and honorably. No right is given freely, it must be earned, and it grows by example. Our example will encourage others, and before long, Morocco will discover its elusive freedom.</p>
<p>&#8220;For a nation to love liberty, it is sufficient that she knows it; and to be free, it is sufficient that she wills it&#8221;—the Marquis de la Fayette.</p>
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		<title>By: alle</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-23169</link>
		<dc:creator>alle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/#comment-23169</guid>
		<description>not quite sure i follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not quite sure i follow.</p>
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		<title>By: punchman</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-23167</link>
		<dc:creator>punchman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/#comment-23167</guid>
		<description>to alle
 there&#039;s no polisario here so check wso that&#039;s world spin organisation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to alle<br />
 there&#8217;s no polisario here so check wso that&#8217;s world spin organisation</p>
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		<title>By: alle</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-23166</link>
		<dc:creator>alle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/#comment-23166</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;punchman&lt;/b&gt; - yeah, the excessive press freedom is certainly morocco&#039;s biggest problem right now...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>punchman</b> &#8211; yeah, the excessive press freedom is certainly morocco&#8217;s biggest problem right now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: punchman</title>
		<link>http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/comment-page-1/#comment-23165</link>
		<dc:creator>punchman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/08/12/prison-of-liberty/#comment-23165</guid>
		<description>to eatbees
 don&#039;t take me wrong i love to see morocco takes the road to democracy , freedom of speech and all the flavor it goes with it i lived in europe for 15 years and i have a pretty good knowledge about democracy &amp; freedom of press. morocco have bigger problem to fry now like education , health , unemployment , security , clean water those are some of the basic human rights in meantime we should modernise the political parties and give them the support and tools to reach the level of democracy we have i think 53 political parties to me this is madness for small country and     Some of the press who speak loudly about the freedom of the press are themselves the enemies of freedom. Countless people dare not say a thing because they know it will be picked up and made a song of by the press. That limits freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to eatbees<br />
 don&#8217;t take me wrong i love to see morocco takes the road to democracy , freedom of speech and all the flavor it goes with it i lived in europe for 15 years and i have a pretty good knowledge about democracy &amp; freedom of press. morocco have bigger problem to fry now like education , health , unemployment , security , clean water those are some of the basic human rights in meantime we should modernise the political parties and give them the support and tools to reach the level of democracy we have i think 53 political parties to me this is madness for small country and     Some of the press who speak loudly about the freedom of the press are themselves the enemies of freedom. Countless people dare not say a thing because they know it will be picked up and made a song of by the press. That limits freedom.</p>
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