Comments on: The Cruelty Principle http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/ "If not now, when?" Tue, 31 Jan 2012 13:12:06 -0800 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Reb http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/comment-page-1/#comment-25792 Reb Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:30:50 +0000 http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/#comment-25792 I agree with Ibn Kafka and Eatbees that Fouad did not break any laws and the whole sordid mess has more to do with theaching everyone a lesson. Hopefully the voice of the people will not fall on deaf ears and Fouad will be able to go home on Friday. I agree with Ibn Kafka and Eatbees that Fouad did not break any laws and the whole sordid mess has more to do with theaching everyone a lesson. Hopefully the voice of the people will not fall on deaf ears and Fouad will be able to go home on Friday.

]]> By: leblase http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/comment-page-1/#comment-25791 leblase Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:19:53 +0000 http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/#comment-25791 Ibn Kafka: You're right to point out that Fouad didn't seem to have tried to rob Moulay Rachid of his belongings. But I'm afraid he did take someone else's identity in a public (though uncertified) document: today an information published in a social networks like Facebook, as new affairs coming out now in the States tend to assert, is to be considered a public document. I guess (and hope;-) that it is not yet as such in Moroccan law. The real trouble, as I tried to say, is in the nature of the reaction: taking this man on a ride and roughing him up with the usual impunity-minded manners police like to impose on people, letting it be known so that all Moroccan Web-users get the message is VERY political. A sign that someone has decided to put an end to some more liberties. One should now hope and work for the backfire created by the internet fast-spreading information to do the exact opposite: let the power know that they are the ones on surveliance Ibn Kafka: You’re right to point out that Fouad didn’t seem to have tried to rob Moulay Rachid of his belongings.
But I’m afraid he did take someone else’s identity in a public (though uncertified) document: today an information published in a social networks like Facebook, as new affairs coming out now in the States tend to assert, is to be considered a public document.
I guess (and hope;-) that it is not yet as such in Moroccan law.
The real trouble, as I tried to say, is in the nature of the reaction: taking this man on a ride and roughing him up with the usual impunity-minded manners police like to impose on people, letting it be known so that all Moroccan Web-users get the message is VERY political.
A sign that someone has decided to put an end to some more liberties.
One should now hope and work for the backfire created by the internet fast-spreading information to do the exact opposite: let the power know that they are the ones on surveliance

]]> By: alle http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/comment-page-1/#comment-25790 alle Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:31:43 +0000 http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/#comment-25790 Great post, really great, and good that it's getting some coverage on English-language blogs too. Great post, really great, and good that it’s getting some coverage on English-language blogs too.

]]> By: Ibn Kafka http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/comment-page-1/#comment-25789 Ibn Kafka Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:46:02 +0000 http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/#comment-25789 leblase: well, theft of identity, "usurpation d'identité", is a crime under Moroccan law only if you take someone else's identity in a public or certified document, which patently isn't the case here. Fouad didn't even impersonate Moulay Rachid, as he didn't put his own photograph under the profile he created. And no sane person has even alleged that Fouad Mourtada tried to use the profile to rob Moulay Rachid of his belongings... The case rests on thin air, and were Moroccan judges independent, competent and professionnal, this case would be thrown out of court on the spot. leblase: well, theft of identity, “usurpation d’identité”, is a crime under Moroccan law only if you take someone else’s identity in a public or certified document, which patently isn’t the case here. Fouad didn’t even impersonate Moulay Rachid, as he didn’t put his own photograph under the profile he created. And no sane person has even alleged that Fouad Mourtada tried to use the profile to rob Moulay Rachid of his belongings… The case rests on thin air, and were Moroccan judges independent, competent and professionnal, this case would be thrown out of court on the spot.

]]> By: leblase http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/comment-page-1/#comment-25787 leblase Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:51:17 +0000 http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/#comment-25787 This whole affair should be scrutinized, its various components analyzed independently. First, the theft of identity CAN be a crime, and the prince was in his right to stop that: how could he know the limits of the young Facebooker's intentions? So the source of the whole stuff lays on a righteous principle: nobody would like to hear some unknown chap is going around pretending he is you. Second, the harsh treatments: I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Ministry of interior is pleased to let known the insane, arbitrary, illegal way the young man was treated. It provides an obvious red line and the fact that Motic gives up is the main proof that the Royal court and the ministry of Interior win the first round: there no better censorship than self-censorship. It is a clear sign to my numerous Moroccan blogger friends that a crackdown might be under way, but like Laurent Bervas I wonder if it is not, at the same time, the perfect occasion to confront the king's public relation policy with the idea of freedom of expression. The moroccan blogosphere is very lively, very diverse. It is one of the few domains in Morocco where so much of the people's authentic quality, culture, intelligence and great sens of humor can appear to the world. The fact that so much of it is expressed in French is also important, as it deprives the Moroccan authority who would try to get the West's sympathy of the argument of the fight against religious integrism So let us spread the world about what appear to me to be the main facts: 1/police can still go around like they do in every fascist country in complete impunity 2/Moroccan people deserve a place in their own country if Morocco is to become a partner of Europe: they are ready and can prove it with this whole mess. but I suggest they do not insist on "it was no crime to substitute an identity", because as you know eatbees, identity theft is fast becoming the easy way to rob common people of their belongings. This whole affair should be scrutinized, its various components analyzed independently.

First, the theft of identity CAN be a crime, and the prince was in his right to stop that: how could he know the limits of the young Facebooker’s intentions?
So the source of the whole stuff lays on a righteous principle: nobody would like to hear some unknown chap is going around pretending he is you.
Second, the harsh treatments: I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Ministry of interior is pleased to let known the insane, arbitrary, illegal way the young man was treated.
It provides an obvious red line and the fact that Motic gives up is the main proof that the Royal court and the ministry of Interior win the first round: there no better censorship than self-censorship.

It is a clear sign to my numerous Moroccan blogger friends that a crackdown might be under way, but like Laurent Bervas I wonder if it is not, at the same time, the perfect occasion to confront the king’s public relation policy with the idea of freedom of expression.
The moroccan blogosphere is very lively, very diverse. It is one of the few domains in Morocco where so much of the people’s authentic quality, culture, intelligence and great sens of humor can appear to the world.
The fact that so much of it is expressed in French is also important, as it deprives the Moroccan authority who would try to get the West’s sympathy of the argument of the fight against religious integrism

So let us spread the world about what appear to me to be the main facts:
1/police can still go around like they do in every fascist country in complete impunity
2/Moroccan people deserve a place in their own country if Morocco is to become a partner of Europe: they are ready and can prove it with this whole mess.
but I suggest they do not insist on “it was no crime to substitute an identity”, because as you know eatbees, identity theft is fast becoming the easy way to rob common people of their belongings.

]]> By: Ibn Kafka http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/comment-page-1/#comment-25784 Ibn Kafka Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:58:13 +0000 http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2008/02/17/cruelty-principle/#comment-25784 Really excellent, I surprised myself nodding in accord when I read the passage on Fouad and aghast when reading about Tariq Biassi. Let's hope for the best, but I'm not really optimistic... Really excellent, I surprised myself nodding in accord when I read the passage on Fouad and aghast when reading about Tariq Biassi. Let’s hope for the best, but I’m not really optimistic…

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