Comments on: The Case for the Moroccan Sahara

By: Sahara Surfer

Sahara Surfer — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 03:20:11 +0000

Vankaas, you said this: Sure, independence or not: that is the question and it should be an option in a referendum for the people who are concerned: the Saharawi people. Not Moroccans.

What do you think about referendum in the USA, for people who are concerned: Red Indians. Not Americans.

Your game is over!!!

By: Sahara Surfer

Sahara Surfer — Sat, 03 Sep 2011 03:07:25 +0000

Thanks for the article. It refers to a lot of historical facts about the region. I travel frequently to the Sahara , i go till the border with Mauritania as i organise surf tours through the Sahara.
Most of the people i meet there speak north Morocco accent and the few ones who speak Sahrawian accent are so friendly and welcoming and never heared the word Western Sahara from anyone of them.
The problem is not inside the Moroccan teritory it is rather outside. The situation to me seems like a business company advertising for a business wich does not exist!!
I was chocked when i heared about the deadly clashes in Laayoun( i was in Layoun a week earlier) when Moroccan authorities tryed to dismantal Egdym izeek refugees camp.
Brutality of the refugees who refused to leave the camp was disturbing, 11 of the security soldiers were killed, some of them were stoned to death others they cut there throats, pissed on there bodies.. you can watch videos on youtube!!
Pure canibalism!!!
On the International media we’ve seen pictures and videos of dead kids and women represented as victims of the Moroccan intervention. Soon we find out that the pictures are of a murder crime that happened in Casablanca, photographer reported copyright infringment . the Polisario provided media channels with pictures and videos of victims of Israelean air strike on Gaza.
At the end, the story turned out to be that the same refugees from Tindouf who came back to Morocco, among them there was a group of people who were on a mission!! destroy , murder and riot…
The Polisario are breeding monsters in Tindouf camps unfortunatly, there is a generation or two who have been born there. They are thaught in Tindouf and Cuba.. poisonous ideas and principals.
As Abraham lincoln said: you can fool some people some times … but you can’t full all the people all the time!!
Vankaas, if you are Algerian, are you ready to die for the Polisario? Me, i m ready to die for My home!!!
If you are a Polisario, sooner or later the military rule will fall down in Algeria, Tsunami of Freedom and Dimocracy is hitting north Africa soon Algerians will seek a democratic government not a military one. Then We and Algerians are gonna be friends, because geography, history , religion language binds the two people for centuries, I don’t think the Polisario will separate them forever!!
You could be just someone paid to do this. you are missing a lot of background knowledge about this issue.
There is No more Clolonel Kadafi rulling Lybia and soon there will be no more colonels rulling Algeria neither. Polisario were captured in Lybia fighting beside kadafi forces(mercennary)
There is reports of Polisario involved with Alkaeda brunch in Almaghreb.

By: BENDRISS

BENDRISS — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:35:28 +0000

beautiful articale..,simlpy algeria gvt needs to back off.

By: vankaas

vankaas — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:03:06 +0000

Dear Eatbees, “Are all independence movements noble?” looked like a rhetorical question to me. But now you insist: no I do not think all independence movements are noble. Why do you want to know? (rhetorical question)

Is the Moroccan army noble? No I do not think so. The Moroccan army has been involved in acts of genocide according to Saharawi people. Furthermore the Moroccan army is accessory to robbery of Saharawi natural resources and that is also not noble at all.

By: Myrtus

Myrtus — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:06:54 +0000

Don’t expect to carry a serious conversation with vankaas. He/she is a polisario operative who is known to go around the Internet spamming everyone who brings up the Sahara issue, with the same nonsense over and over.

By: eatbees

eatbees — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:29:38 +0000

vankass, you didn’t answer my question! — “Are all independence movements noble?”

By: vankaas

vankaas — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 17:47:01 +0000

Eatbees, you logic is hard to follow. As for the refugees, most Moroccans consider them to be detainees of the Polisario. So what? Moroccan considerations are not leading. Moroccans are very poor informed people because of propaganda and censorship. You are very poor informed as well. You do not even seem to be aware of the situation of Bashir. The refugees are not detainees. According to the UN they are refugees. As refugees they receive donations from all over the world. They fled for Morocco for Morocco tried to kill them. Morocco should start paying up for the cost of living for those people, for Morocco is responsible for their situation, not the UN or Algeria or all other donors who are paying the bills now. Furthermore Morocco is stealing the natural resources of Western Sahara. The money it earns should be used for the refugees, not for the Makhzen.

By: eatbees

eatbees — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:08:33 +0000

vankaas, as I demonstrated, the Sahara has longstanding historic and cultural ties to Morocco. There was never an independent state there, simply a collection of tribes who moved around quite a bit within the whole Greater Maghreb. After decolonization, a certain consolidation of frontiers took place, which is inevitable. I certainly would have supported Saharan independence — from Spain. But I think that Morocco is all too aware, and I agree myself, that because of Algerian interests, a separate state called Western Sahara today would be “independent” in name only.

Morocco is offering the Sahrawi people full self-determination within Morocco. They will have their own elected government, and can manage their own resources. Meanwhile, they will be able to live, work and study anywhere in Morocco, as many do already. As Jillian pointed out, the human rights record is not perfect, and Morocco needs to work on that. I believe they are working on that, which is what the king’s recently announced reforms are all about. Meanwhile, this brings benefits to all of Morocco, since the Saharan autonomy plan will be used as a model to give greater autonomy to all Moroccan regions. I’m sincerely excited by this, and see it as the way out of a 35-year impasse for which Algeria is just as responsible as any other party.

When you say that the Sahrawi people should choose, not Moroccans — the Moroccans will respond that the Sahrawi are Moroccans. It is a vital part of their history and culture. Why should only Sahrawi who can prove their families lived there 35 years ago get to vote, when this is an issue that affects all Moroccans? As for the refugees, most Moroccans consider them to be detainees of the Polisario. They want to see the frontiers opened so those people can return. At the moment, they live in a remote corner of Algeria where food, water and firewood need to be trucked in. Are they really there because they prefer that life to freedom of movement within Morocco? Does that seem reasonable?

I’ve consciously weighed in on one side of the case, because I believe this side isn’t heard enough outside Morocco. But I respect your right to disagree. Still, let me ask you something — are all independence movements noble? Do you support the ETA, the Basque group that Spain and France consider terrorists? Or the movement to separate Kashmir from India, which is armed and funded by the Pakistani secret service? Or the desire of some Kurds to carve out pieces of Turkey, Iraq and Iran? Even the Dalai Lama has said that real autonomy within China would be an acceptable solution for Tibet. Doesn’t the stability of a nation sometimes trump self-determination at its extreme? Aren’t the interests of a people sometimes better served by remaining part of a larger union, so long as their self-determination is guaranteed?

By: Liosliath

Liosliath — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:53:00 +0000

VanKaas, I think that’s unfair. Eatbees has clearly presented both sides of the issue here, which most Western Sahara pro-independence blogs do not.

I’d bet that if Algeria could somehow convince Morocco to allow them a sea route/oil pipeline through the Western Sahara, the Polisaro would quickly fizzle out. Of course, that will likely never happen.

Do you seriously believe that support of “human rights” is Algeria’s main goal?

By: vankaas

vankaas — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:28:07 +0000

The key of your story is: "Saharan independence is no longer an option. " I think it never was to you, Eatbees. Or was it? Sure, independence or not: that is the question and it should be an option in a referendum for the people who are concerned: the Saharawi people. Not Moroccans. Autonomy has nothing to do with this question at all. Autonomy can only be another form of illegal occupation. It will not change any status of the territory which is listed at the UN as a non-self-governing territory. And meanwhile, Morocco should start paying for the cost of living for those who it has chased away into Algerian and UN protection. There is a big debt building up.